Monday, 18 May 2015

Monday quote

The office of government is not to confer happiness, but to give men the opportunity to work out happiness for themselves.

William Ellery Channing (1780–1842).

Sunday, 17 May 2015

Encouraging our children to persevere in the faith

In an article discussing why children abandon Christianity after leaving home, Liveway identifies the importance of teaching our children the truth of Christianity. Children don't need to (just) know a set of rules and a collection of common beliefs, but also doctrine; and not just the what of Christian doctrine but the why.

They also summarise a study looking at commonalities of those who remain in the fold versus those who leave.

Recent research out of Fuller Theological Seminary examined the long-term faith of teenagers, and the results were compiled in the book "Sticky Faith: Everyday Ideas to Build Lasting Faith in Your Kids" by Kara E. Powell and Chap Clark.
Three features of children who persevere are
  1. Students with sticky faith are raised in a faith culture that emphasizes a relationship with Christ as opposed to an adherence to a set of rules.
  2. Students with sticky faith are surrounded by an intergenerational faith community.
  3. The most important factor by far in each of the lives of teens who developed sticky faith is a parent who is willing to walk with them through their faith journey. 
We need to focus them on Jesus, church them in community and (to an extent) resist a peer-only environment, and make sure we, as parents, are engaging our children in matters of faith.

While not included here, my pastor would add that children who serve in the church persevere more than those who just attend. We should get our children involved in various ministries. Examples would depend on the child but could include helping with younger age group ministry; sound; church setup; music; food ministries.

Saturday, 16 May 2015

Round and exact numbers in Numbers

There has been some complaint about the census values in Numbers being round numbers. I don't see why this is a problem. A more sophisticated argument against the census is that the Levites were clearly counted to the man. Personally, I find these discrepancies quite interesting as they are the type of thing I notice when reading the Bible but that I encounter less frequently reading criticisms of the Bible.

In his book Why I Believed, Kenneth Daniels makes this case against the passage in Numbers citing several discrepancies ennumerated below. He rightly recognises that the first issue may not be a problem.
  1. The difference between the number of Levites per clan and the the total number of Levites.
  2. The rounding of the number of Levites compared with the precise number of firstborns; something he thinks is mathematically unwarranted.
  3. The self-serving behaviour of the priests in redeeming the excess 273 persons for 5 shekels each.
  4. The discordance between the number of firstborns and the number of mothers.
As a mathematically disposed person I appreciate the issue here. I have noted the difference between accuracy and precision, and get frustrated when data is presented in unwarranted precision. But one must be careful not to let his expectations of how he would do something dictate how something was actually done. Furthermore, there may be important reasons that we are missing by concentrating on what we deem important.

In Numbers 1 God tells Moses to number the Israelites from age 20 upwards (excluding Levi). The total number for each tribe is clearly to the nearest 100. Gad is rounded to the nearest 50. The reason for numbering men aged over 20 may partly be military as these are the men who go to war. Round numbers are adequate for this reason—though exact numbers are permissible. It may be that Gad included a small clan that did not reach 100 men so they would have included a number rounded to the nearest 10. If the number had been, say 47, then this would mean rounding to 0 for that tribe, and adding zero for that clan towards the total number of Israelites; but then that clan would be effectively excluded. A community approach to census allows for a round number, but no clan should be excluded. Thus round numbers are consistent with (but not necessary for) a communal focus.

The Levites are excluded from this count because they are set apart for God. But they are counted, though the focus is on all the Levites so the count is from age 1 month. The count is Gershon: 7500; Kohath: 8600; Merari: 6200; for a total of 22,300. Though the Bible gives the sum as 22,000. This is probably a copyist error as the summation for the other Israelites earlier is correct. Again, the number of Levites is given in round numbers which is acceptable as it was the community of Levites.

The number of firstborn males for all the Israelites was 22,273. These were the males to be redeemed. Redemption of people has an individual component. This is not to discount the importance of community, but biblically there is a sense of individuality associated with redemption.

So the rounded numbers are given in Numbers when communal qualities are in view: warfare and temple (tabernacle) service, but exact numbers are given for individual qualities: redemption.

The redemption of the firstborn meant that God exchanged the firstborn of Israel for all the Levites. It is appropriate to subtract the 2 numbers as the 2 groups are being exchanged. Now if the Levites had been counted to the man then subtracting the 2 numbers would have given a slightly different number, but that is not particularly relevant. What is important is that the rounded number of the Levites was the figure that they had. But as the exchange concerned redemption, one could not say the numbers are approximately the same as that discounts the importance of redeeming every individual. Saying 22,000 is about 22,273 says the numbers are close enough. Saying the excess 273 must pay 5 shekels is saying that every single firstborn male must be redeemed. The amount of money did not matter—it was not that much—but the knowledge that every individual was redeemed to a man was vital.

The amount was 1365 shekels of silver. This is not a large amount. Compare the amount of gold and silver used in building the tabernacle. If the priests were being self-serving why not just ask for a shekel per person on top of the Levite exchange.

Now God did not need to redeem all the firstborn of Israel as that is what the Passover accomplished. However the census occurred in the second month of the second year. In that time there would have been many births. The exact number is uncertain but some rough estimates can be considered. The total number of Israelites males over 20 was about 600,000. Probably a similar number of females of that age and more if we add those who may have gotten married from about 15. Of course older females would have finished having children and many other women already had had a firstborn male. But using the number 600,000 we get a ratio of 1:27 of women giving birth to a firstborn male in the previous 13 months. Or consider the total population. If we have 1.2 million men and women over the age of 20 the total population could exceed 2 million. A high birth-rate of say 50 births per 1000 persons per year would give over 100,000 births per year, over 8000 per month. The number of firstborn males redeemed were those born since the Passover.

Monday, 11 May 2015

Monday quote

Some may blame Gideon for demolishing Baal's altar by night, fearing relatives and city fathers. I doubt that it matters. Did God tell him to do it by day? Did God tell him he couldn't be afraid? Or did God simply tell him to do it? Evidently obedience was essential and heroism optional.

Dale Ralph Davis, Such a Great Salvation.

Monday, 4 May 2015

Monday quote

Concern for the vulnerable may be what motivates your political stance. But they are not one and the same thing.

Glenn Peoples.

Sunday, 3 May 2015

Israelite census

God told Moses to number the men Israel when they came out from Egypt then again nearly 40 years later. The first a year after leaving Egypt, the second before they entered the promised land. The census of the 12 tribes included the 2 subtribes of Joseph: Ephraim and Manasseh. The 12 tribes were divided into 4 companies of 3 tribes, each headed by 1 of the 3 tribes. They camped on different sides of the tabernacle. Levi was not included as they were set apart for service to God. They were counted separately and camped around the tabernacle.

The first census was in the 2nd year after leaving Egypt (Numbers 1). The census data is repeated in Numbers 2 with the division totals. The tribe of Levi is documented in Numbers 3. The second census was in the 40th year after leaving Egypt (Numbers 26).

All males aged 20 and over were counted for the nation census. All males aged 1 month and over were counted for the Levite census.

Israel had grown rapidly from ~70 males a little over 200 years earlier. Because of their unfaithfulness in refusing to fight the Canaanites they died in the desert. A similar number of men over the age of 20 (but none over 60) were alive ~40 years later. While every Israelite over the age of 20 died in the desert (Numbers 14), this may not have included the Levites. There was no spy sent from the tribe of Levi (Numbers 13), Levi had previously been zealous for the Lord (Exodus 32), and the Levite Eleazer (Exodus 6:25) entered Canaan (Joshua 17:4). Caleb and Joshua were also excluded from the punishment (Numbers 14:30).

Here are the numbers for the 2 censuses. The number of Levites does not add up; the sum of the 3 clans is 22,300 but the total given is 22,000. It is likely that the total is correct thus there is probably a transcription error for Gershon or Kohath.

Company Tribe Clan Census 1
Census 2
Numbers 1-3 Numbers 26
Reuben Reuben
46500
43730
South Simeon
59300
22200

Gad
45650
40500




151450
Judah Judah
74600
76500
East Issachar
54400
64300

Zebulun
57400
60500




186400
Ephraim Ephraim
40500
32500
West Manasseh
32200
52700

Benjamin
35400
45600




108100
Dan Dan
62700
64400
North Asher
41500
53400

Naphtali
53400
45400




157600

Total
603550
601730

Levi





Gershon 7500



Kohath 8600



Merari 6200




22000 (22300) 23000

Saturday, 2 May 2015

Was Jesus wrong in his prediction concerning the end of the world?

It has been said that this prophecy of Jesus was mistaken,
Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24:34)
I do not wish to delve into a complete analysis of the Olivet discourse here, yet there are a few comments that need to be made.

The quote comes up when Jesus is leaving the temple having chastised the scribes and warned against them.
Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” (Matthew 24:1-2)
Later the disciples responded.
As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (Matthew 24:3)
Note that the disciples are asking 2 and possibly 3 questions here, even though they may have thought they were asking about a single event. Jesus had said that the stones of the temple would thrown down. The disciples asked:
  1. when will these things be?
  2. what will be the sign of your coming?
  3. [what will be the sign] of the end of the age?
Questions 2 and 3 may be the same question though they need not be. In the subsequent discussion called the Olivet Discourse Jesus answers these questions but as there is 2 and possibly 3 questions, his answers address different components.

In his answer he warns them; he says things will be terrible; he says there will be deception; he says his return will be obvious. The initial question was in response to Jesus' comment about the temple stones, thus part of the answer refers to the Fall of Jerusalem, though it need not all be about the events 4 decades hence. If we read the rest of Jesus quote it reads,
So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. (Matthew 24:33-36)
Jesus says,
  1. Recognise the time of the end at the time of the end
  2. This generation will not pass away until all these things take place
  3. No one knows the time
And he says all this together. So understanding his meaning must take this into consideration. What might "This generation will not pass away" mean then? I can think of at least 3 possibilities.

It may refer to the temple question. This generation will not pass away until the temple will not have one stone left upon another.

It may refer to the time of the end. The people living at the time of the end are to recognise that they live at the time of the end because of the signs and they can know that when these signs are all being completed the end will definitely arrive within this generation.

It may be better translated,
This generation will not pass away until all these things begin to take place.
In which case the things Jesus is talking about will commence within a generation.

Monday, 27 April 2015

Monday quote

The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it.

George Orwell (1903–1950).

Monday, 20 April 2015

Monday quote

If we discover a desire within us that nothing in this world can satisfy, also we should begin to wonder if perhaps we were created for another world.

C. S. Lewis (1898–1963).

Saturday, 18 April 2015

Gematria

In Hebrew and Greek character glyphs double as numerical glyphs. Gematria is the Hebrew term given to assigning a number to a word based on reading the letters as numerals and summing them. Below are the numbers assigned to various letters in Greek and Hebrew. Note the table is based on the numerical value and the two sounds in a row aren't necessarily similar. Greek uses some glyphs that had become obsolete as letters (6, 90, 900) and Hebrew uses glyphs of letters than appear different when they occur at the end of a word (500–900).

NumberGreekHebrew
1 Α א
2 Β ב
3 Γ ג
4 Δ ד
5 Ε ה
6 Ϝ ו
7 Ζ ז
8 Η ח
9 Θ ט
10 Ι י
20 Κ כ
30 Λ ל
40 Μ מ
50 Ν נ
60 Ξ ס
70 Ο ע
80 Π פ
90 Ϙ צ
100 Ρ ק
200 Σ ר
300 Τ ש
400 Υ ת
500 Φ ך
600 Χ ם
700 Ψ ן
800 Ω ף
900 ϡ ץ

Monday, 13 April 2015

Monday quote

If you reject the Bible's history, you will reject the Bible's morality.

Ken Ham

Sunday, 12 April 2015

Was Revelation written under Domitian?

Domitian
Nero died in 68 and there were 3 contenders for the throne in quick succession. First Galba, then Otho. After Otho's suicide in April 69 supporters of Vitellius proclaimed him emperor and supporters of Vespasian in the Eastern provinces proclaimed him emperor. The Senate in Rome accepted Vitellius as emperor initially in mid 69 and conferred Vespasian as emperor in December 69. About that time Vespasian was in Egypt securing food for Rome and his son Titus was fighting the Roman-Jewish war. Vespasian's other son Domitian ruled in Rome and was aided by the general Mucianus after the general arrived in Rome. Domitian was 18 at the time and ruled for 6 months until Vespasian arrived in June 70. Domitian had full consular authority. Josephus writes
[Mucianus] then produced Domitian, and recommended him to the multitude, until his father [Vespasian] should come himself; so the people being now freed from their fears, made acclamations of joy for Vespasian, as for their emperor, and kept festival days for his confirmation, and for the destruction of Vitellius. (War of the Jews, book 4, chapter 11.4)
Cassius in his Roman History notes that both Domitian and Mucianus acted like they were emperors. The sarcastic letter from Vespasian to his son Domitian is amusing.
Thus Vespasian, like some others, had been born for the throne. While he was still absent in Egypt, Mucianus administered all the details of government with the help of Domitian. For Mucianus, who claimed that he had bestowed the sovereignty upon Vespasian, plumed himself greatly upon his honours, and especially because he was called brother by him, and had authority to transact any business that he wished without the emperor's express direction, and could issue written orders by merely adding the other's name. And for this purpose he wore a ring, that had been sent him so that he might impress the imperial seal upon documents requiring authorization. In fact, he and Domitian gave governorships and procuratorships to many and appointed prefect after prefect and even consuls. In short, they acted in every way so much like absolute rulers that Vespasian once sent the following message to Domitian: "I thank you, my son, for permitting me to hold office and that you have not yet dethroned me." (Roman History, book 75, chapter 2. Emphasis added.)
There is a tradition that Domitian exiled John to Patmos and that he was freed by Nerva. Domitian was emperor from 81 to 96 and was succeeded by Nerva. This implies that Revelation was authored during Domitian's reign which is a common belief. If, however, he was exiled by Domitian when he was consul for his father Vespasian in the first half of 70, he could have subsequently been released by Nerva who was made consul in 71.
Vespasian took as his colleague in the consulship in 71 A.D. M. Cocceius Nerva. Now Nerva—the future emperor—was the representative of a family distinguished for three generations as jurists, and no doubt his appointment at this particular time was due to Vespasian's desire to have a skilled lawyer at his side for dealing with the mass of sentences of exile and of confiscation which were the legacy of the successive revolutions. Nerva held office during the first nundinum of 71 A.D., and it is permissible to believe that in accordance with tradition one of the sentences quashed by him was that which sent John to Patmos. If by an order of Nerva he were now released, his exile would have lasted almost exactly one year. (Edmundson, Church in Rome in the First Century, lecture 6)
Edmundson links a passage in Revelation to these Caesars. John sees a woman riding a scarlet beast with blasphemous names, 7 heads, and 10 horns. The angel explains this mystery,
This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. (Revelation 17)
The 7 hills or mountains are usually identified with Rome. The 7 kings are sometimes identified as Caesars. Others have identified them as kingdoms. The beasts seem to be identified as kingdoms in Daniel. In Revelation beast may represent the Roman Empire. Earlier in Revelation John says that the number of the beast is a number of a man. I think the number likely refers to Nero. So is Nero the beast? Or does the number represent Nero and Nero identifies the beast as Rome? In the passage above a beast is linked to the kings. It is a beast that was, and is not, it is an eighth, but belongs to the 7.

Edmundson argues that these 7 Caesars are fallen so must have died violent and not natural deaths. He says that Domitian is the sixth king (acting for Vespasian).
"The one who is" signifies the man for the moment invested with imperial power, Domitian, the acting Emperor, who banished the writer.
Thus, as per Edmundson, the kings are
  1. Claudius
  2. Nero
  3. Galba
  4. Otho
  5. Vitellius
  6. Domitian
  7. Vespasian
But the eighth is unclear—presumably Titus. And why start at Claudius? Caligula was murdered and Tiberius may have been (Tacitus states he was smothered by Caligula).

Julius is sometimes named the first emperor and Suetonius (c. 120) starts his count of the 12 Caesars from Julius, however Julius was involved in a civil war (which he won) and there was further civil war after his death. It was Octavian (Augustus) who won the subsequent wars and the form of government was changed. Although Julius was instrumental in the development of the Roman Empire, it may be preferable label Augustus the first emperor.

# # # Name Start End Reign Born Died Age Death
1

Julius 49 BC 44 BC 5 100 BC 44 BC 53 Murder
2 1 1 Augustus 27 BC 14 AD 40 63 BC 14 AD 75 Natural
3 2 2 Tiberius 14 37 22 42 BC 37 AD 77 Uncertain
4 3 3 Caligula 37 41 4 12 AD 41 AD 28 Murder
5 4 4 Claudius 41 54 13 10 BC 54 AD 63 Murder
6 5 5 Nero 54 68 13 37 AD 68 AD 30 Suicide
7 6
Galba 68 69 7 m 3 BC 69 AD 70 Murder
8 7
Otho 69 69 3 m 32 AD 69 AD 36 Suicide
9 8
Vitellius 69 69 8 m 15 AD 69 AD 54 Murder
10 9 6 Vespasian 69 79 10 9 AD 79 AD 69 Natural
11 10  7 Titus 79 81 2 39 AD 81 AD 41 Natural
12 11 8 Domitian 81 96 15 51 AD 96 AD 44 Murder
13 12
Nerva 96 98 2 30 AD 98 AD 67 Natural

After the suicide of Nero there were several contenders for the throne, each murdering his predecessor. It was a period of civil war with Galba killing supporters of Nero and in turn being killed by Otho, a friend of Nero. Otho went to war against Vitellius and those who supported Vitellius for Emperor, taking his own life when defeat was inevitable. And as noted above, the Eastern provinces threw their support behind Vespasian for Emperor mid 69 even though he wasn't recognised as such by the Senate until December. The 18 months civil war with factional support of differing claims to Emperor make it difficult to accept Edmundson's ascription of Galba, Otho, or Vitellius as emperors of the Roman Empire. Likewise, it is also difficult to accept his comment calling Domitian Emperor because he was ruling in his father's absence.

Thus we have as Roman Emperors
  1. Augustus
  2. Tiberius
  3. Caligula
  4. Claudius
  5. Nero
  6. Vespasian
  7. Titus
  8. Domitian
If this corresponds to John's 7 kings then
  • five of whom have fallen: Augustus to Nero
  • one is: Vespasian
  • the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while: Titus
Note that Titus only ruled for 2 years.

And the beast?
The beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven. (Rev 17)
Domitian was in the sense he had been acting emperor. He is not at the time of Vespasian. He is an eighth in that he became the eighth emperor. And he belongs to the seven in that he ruled during the time of the seven: specifically during the beginning of the sixth reign. (One of the seven may also allude to him being related to Vespasian.)

This interpretation of Revelation 17 of being written early in Vespasian's reign but while Domitian was a proxy emperor makes sense of much of the internal and external data around the dating of Revelation. Internally Revelation was written in the late 60s, and externally it was written under Domitian; though when he was acting emperor his father in 70 rather than during his emperorship from 81–96. If correct this would suggest Revelation was written in early 70 but prior to the final razing of Jerusalem.

Saturday, 11 April 2015

When was Revelation written? Internal evidence

Revelation was written by John (Revelation 1:1). We know the fourth Gospel and letters were written by John the apostle. There are similarities between the Gospel and Revelation which would indicate shared authorship. Differences in language would be explained by topical differences as well as John probably writing Revelation directly though possibly using an amanuensis for his gospel. A different John also seems unlikely as the author does not qualify himself further. Thus the book of Revelation would need to be written prior to John's death and therefore probably before the end of the first century.

References to the temple are not definitive. The temple is mentioned 10 times in the book of Revelation. Most of these are to God's temple in heaven. The reference in chapter 11 (twice) appears to be the earthly temple but the context could allow for a future temple in Jerusalem. If the temple was still standing this would mean the date of writing was prior to 70.

Revelation 13 gives the number of the beast as 666. This almost certainly refers to Nero for reasons I give here. Now Revelation 13 could be also referencing the state (via Nero), and perhaps it has a meaning at the time of Jesus' return as yet to be determined. Nevertheless, it is likely that it refers to at least Nero. Nero was emperor from c. 54–68 AD which narrows the date of Revelation to this period. John was exiled to Patmos. This would seem likely to be latter in Nero's reign rather than earlier.

Later in Revelation we read about 7 kings,
I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. (Revelation 17:7-12)
The 7 mountains are Rome The 7 kings could be Roman kings or perhaps the kings could represent kingdoms. The 6th king or kingdom being current at the time of writing Revelation, or at the time the vision refers to.

For the 7 kingdoms theory the following kingdoms are often suggested.
  1. Egypt
  2. Nineveh
  3. Babylon
  4. Medo-Persia
  5. Greece
  6. Rome
  7. ?
The 7 kings theory is more difficult; where do we start and who do we include?
  • Julius 
  • Augustus
  • Tiberius
  • Caligula
  • Claudius
  • Nero
  • (Galba, Otho, Vitellius)
  • Vespasian
  • Titus
  • Domitian
If we go with the kingdom interpretation it does not help us with the dating as we already know that Revelation was written during the Roman Empire.

If we go with the king interpretation do we start the emperor count with Julius or Augustus? Do we include the short reigning emperors even though they fought and murdered each other during what was a civil war? Starting with Julius the sixth king is Nero (54–68). Starting with Augustus the sixth king is Galba (68–69) if we include the civil war emperors, and Vespasian (69–79) if we do not. It could also mean Vespasian during the time between when Nero took his life and when Vespasian was made emperor, i.e. between June 68 and 69.

There are further internal clues. The letter to the church of Pergamum warns against the teaching of Balaam (Rev 2:14). Peter also warned against this teaching (2Pe 3:15). This may reflect a common heresy at the time, and 2 Peter was written prior to Peter's death c. 68. Others see Jesus' rebuke to the Laodiceans concerning their boasting: "I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing" (Rev 3:17) as alluding to the city's boast that they rebuilt the city after the earthquake of 60 without help from Rome.
Laodicea, was that same year overthrown by an earthquake, and, without any relief from us, recovered itself by its own resources. (Tacitus, Annals, Book 14)
 Most of these dates suggest Revelation was written some time in the late 60s.

Monday, 6 April 2015

Monday quote

Consider the Pharisees at the time of Jesus. They had more evidence that Jesus was the Son of God than we could ever hope to have. They saw him, talked with him, and had their questions answered. They saw the miracles. They saw him die on the cross and watched as he was buried in the tomb. They even asked to have a guard posted and the tomb sealed in case the disciples tried to do something. But when they found the tomb empty, they did not worship Christ bu instead made up the story that the disciples stole the body.

David A DeWitt, Unravelling the Origins Controversy.

Saturday, 4 April 2015

Does Job say the sky is solid?

Job 37:18 says
Can you, like him, spread out the skies,/
hard as a cast metal mirror? (ESV)

will you, with him, spread out the clouds,/
solid as a mirror of molten metal? (NET)

can you join him in spreading out the skies,/
hard as a mirror of cast bronze? (NIV)

Can you, with him, spread out [raqa`] the skies [shachaq],/
strong [chazaq] as a mirror [r'iy] of molten [yatsaq] metal?
raqa` means to "spread out".

shachaq is more often translated "clouds" or "dust". It is less often used for "heaven" and the more common word for heaven is the Bible is shamayim.

chazaq means "strong", so "hard" or "solid" seems reasonable if the context is that of a solid object.

r'iy means means "appearance". The more common word for mirror is mar'ah. Mirror may seem an appropriate translation based on the meaning "appearance".  However the Septuagint doesn’t translate the word as “mirror” but “appearance”.

yatsaq means to "pour out". It is translated into English as "molten" only here. As mirrors were made of metal (not glass) poured out metal is molten metal. Thus a reasonable translation if mirror is correct. But what is a molten mirror? One in the process of being cast (see ESV and NIV)? But a molten mirror would not be hard or strong, though perhaps mighty or powerful. The word "metal" is supplied for clarification, it is not in the Hebrew.

Going with the more usual meanings of the words (if the context allows it), for the first half of the verse we get, as per the NET,
Will you, with him, spread out the [strong] clouds,/
Newman translates the verse
Can you, with Him, spread out the mighty clouds,
With an appearance of being poured out?

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